My friend is getting ready to show Bailey and for those of you IN THE SHOW CIRCUIT, can you please give her some pointers on owner handling and critique Bailey....She is 20 months old and just give advice and pointers! She needs some advice on stacking as well! Thanks so much!!

















Any info you can give her would be great!!! If you see any faults in Bailey, just comment, we want to know!

I know, I know...you said for people who show.....but....forgive me!


How about bunching up the leash so that the extra isn't dangling...? (the end can be seen in the first and second pictures....the first picture, I love! you can SEE her smiling!)


GoldenPup

Thats good, thanks, i will let her know!!! :clap

IN ALL THE PICS THE DOG IS NOT ""COLLECTED"

THE FIRST PIC SHOWS WHAT IS CALLED A SLOPPY FRONT, THE DOG IS OUT ON THE ELBOWS AND TO MUCH STRESS IN PUT ON THE DOG BY THE HANDLER..
THERE IS NO NECK PLACEMENT WHATEVER....

IN THE OTHER PICS..FIRST OF ALL LET ME EXPLAIN SHOWING/HANDLING....

THE DOG MUST SHOW ITSELF TO SOME POINT AND IN THE PICS PROCEEDING THE FIRST, THE DOG IS NOT SHOWING ITSELF AT ALL...WHY BECAUSE THE DOG APPARENTLY DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO SHOW ITSELF. SO DO TO THAT THE DOG IS BEING SHOWN WRONG...

THE STACK IS INCORRECT, THE FRONT IS LAID BACK AND IS NOT DISPLAYING A CORRECT SIDE VIEW. THERE IS NO NATURAL STRETCH AND THE NECK IS SET WAY TO FAR BACK INTO THE SHOULDERS... THERE IS NO UPPER ARM PLACEMENT BEING SHOWN NOR ANY CORRECT STIFLE PLACEMENT BEING SHOWN..

AS WITH THE LAST PIC, YET AGAIN I SEE FORCED HANDLING, THE DOG IS NOT STACKED PROPERLY AND THE STRETCH IS NOT CORRECT WHICH LEADS TO AN UNBALANCED TOP LINE WHICH CREATES THE HUMP LOOK IN ITS BACK/TOPLINE AND AGAIN THE NECK IS SET WAY TO FAR BACK INTO THE SHOULDER AND NOTHING IS NATURAL. TO BE HONEST THE DOG MUST DISPLAY MORE THAN WHAT IM SEEING IN THIS PIC TO BE NOTICED....

COULD I GO ON YES BUT I WILL STOP RIGHT HER BECAUSE UNTIL YOU LEARN THE BASICS OF HOW TO AT LEAST HAVE A DOG STACK/SHOW ITSELF YOU WILL NOT CATCH A JUDGES EYE,,,,,,, DID YOU CATCH ME EYE, ""YES"" BECAUSE I SEE SO MANY THINGS GOING WRONG, SO GO BACK TO BASICS AND LEARN THE DOGS STRUCTURE AND HOW THE DOG SHOULD DISPLAY ITSELF AND WITH YOU GIVING LITTLE OR NO HELP,,,, IT MUST BE STRUCTURALLY CORRECT TO BE ABLE TO SHOW AND PRESENT ITSELF CORRECTLY, AND MOST OF ALL THE DOG MUST WANT TO DO THIS, AND BY THAT I MEAN THE DOG SHOWS ITSELF...

CAN THIS DOG BE CRITQUE RIGHT HERE AND NOW I DONT KNOW I DONT DO THAT OFF OF PICS, I CAN ONLY SAY THAT WHAT YOU ARE SHOWING IS BEING SHOWN WRONG...... LEARN THE STRUTURE OF THE BREED AND THEN LOOK OVER YOUR DOG AND HAVE IT SHOW ITSELF TO THE BEST OF THE DOGS ABILITY..

REMEMBER YOU ASKED AND I REPLIED AND YES I HAVE SEVERAL OTHERS THINGS TO SAY BUT I WILL LET OTHER FILL IN THOSE GAPS. I HAVE HAD MANY SHOWN TO CH'S AND IT ALL ABOUT THE CORRECT DOG AND THE CORRECT WAY OF PRESENTING THE DOG...

Do you have any pics, so that we can see the correct "WAY" to do it?

HERE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW A DOG SHOULD STACK ITSELF WITH PROPER PLACEMENT OF THEIR STRUCTURE...

THIS MISS "KELI" AND THIS PIC WAS TAKED WHEN SHE WAS 8 MONTHS OLD...

THIS IS MASTER "KODY" AND IN BOTH HIS AND "KELI'S" PIC ARE EXAMPLES OF OF HOW A DOG SHOULD SHOW ITSELF AS SO TO PRESENT A GREAT STRUCTURE

THE DOG MUST DISPAY SPARK, CHARISMA, AND THE DESIRE TO BE SEEN AS A SHOW DOG!!!

I NO LONGER SHOW IN THE BREED RING, BUT THE WAY A DOG IS SHOWN AND PRESENTS ITS SELF HAS NOT CHANGED AND DO TO THE FACT THAT MY PAST DOGS WERE SHOWN I STILL TODAY TEACH EACH AND EVERYONE OF MY DOGS TO STILL STACK AND SHOW THEMSELVES.....

Yeah ive seen those pics before, but do you have any pics of SHOW lines? You said that youve had many Champions before, that would help to see pics of them! Thanks

YAAAAAAAAAAA,,, WHEN LOOKING AT MASTER "KODY" HE IS OUT OF MY BREEDING STOCK AND SHOW LINES, HE JUST WASNT SHOWN BECAUSE I HAVE QUIT SHOWING IN THE BREED RING....

I DONT KNOW IF YOU HAD READ MY POST ABOUT US HAVING A HOUSE FIRE A COUPLE OF YEARS BACK AND I LOST ALMOST ALL MY PICS AND ALSO ALMOST EVERYTHING WE OWNED EXCPEPT A BRASS BED, AND A COUPLE OF PERSONAL ITEMS. WE HAD TO TOTALLY REBUILD OUR HOME AND OUR LIVES. MY DOGS AND CATS WENT TO BOARDING KENNELS AND WE LIVED IN A MOTEL FOR 2 MONTHS. SO I WISH I HAD ALL MY PICS BUT SORRY I DONT HAVE MUCH FROM MY PAST WHETHER IT BE DOGS PICS OR FAMILY PICS

I HAVE SHOWN SOME OF THE PICS THAT I WAS ABLE SO SAVE AND SOME OF THEM HAD BURNED MARKS ON THEM, SO I DONT HAVE ANYTHING LEFT BUT MY MENTAL MEMORIES........

This is a pic of Tia's Great Grandfather Kirby ( BIS BISS Am/Can Ch. Rush Hill's Häagen-Dazs, CDX, JH, AX, OAJ, WCX, VCX, Can. CD, Can. WC, OS, SDHF ) His stance looks totally different to me, than your dogs. Are there different types of stacking, or does his stack look different because he is a show line? :shrug He is the Top Specialty Winning Golden Retriever OF ALL TIME...Do certain areas show different types, because he is stocky and blocky and keli and kody arent. :shrug

Keep it respectful ladies.

Oh im being respectful! I promise, im just learning! LOL! :clap

KIRBY IS ALSO A DECENDENT OF GOLD RUSH CHARLIE WHO HELD THE TITLE OF THE MOST WINNING GOLDEN UNTIL KIRBY...

THE GOLDRUSH LINES ARE MY LINES, AND KIRBY IS BEING HELD FOR A PIC.

"KELI" IS A FEILD GOLDEN, LIGHTER IN BONE AND MORE TYPY...

"KODY" IS ALSO A STOCKY MALE, HECK HE WEIGHS IN AT 98 LBS. AND HIS IS ALL MUSCLE...

I WAS SHOWING A NATURAL STACK ONE THAT MY DOGS CAN DO WITH OUT ANY HANDLING WHAT SO EVER.

You own Gold Rush? Who did you own from that line? I thought that line was out of NJ??? Charlie is so beautiful, i just love him!!!
Anyway, i still thought that a dog thats free standing LOOKS the same as Kirby does above? With the back legs kicked out...the tail out...ETC. Is that not true? Whats the difference in Stacking and just normal standing in your pics above?

Maybe have your friend find some handling classes in the area to go to to learn? That might help, or maybe talk to the breeder of Bailey to learn?

If your friend hasn't gone to many dog shows...that would probably be really helpfull too, to be able to see what is expected and how things work?

(a few more thoughts....)

GoldenPup

Thanks GoldenPup, that is very HELPFUL information, those pics were taken on a hillside, but she will do better in the show ring! She has been to many shows, but is just a little nervous about her first one, ya know? I cant blame her! LOL!

Anyway, i appreciate the info!

I DONT QUIET UNDERSTAND WHY YOU QUESTION WHY I OWN GOLDRUSH LINES... I OWN AND HAVE OWNED FOR SO MANY YEARS ""DUEL PURPOSE"" LINES

HE IS A LITTLE HOMEWORK FOR YOU!!

I OWN GOLDRUSH,, GILNOCKIE, AND BONNIE ISLAND LINES AND EASTGATE AND KACHINA, AND WESTWINDS FOR """"STARTERS"""""....

CHARLIE WAS BRED TO BEVINS BRANDY WINE, WHICH CREATED MY BREEDERS LINE BRED BITCH BONNIE ISLANDS GOLDRUSH CARLA AND IF YOU OWN OR LOOK INTO THE BOOK WRITTEN BY ""GERTRUDE FISCHER"" CALLLED THE NEW COMPLETE GOLDEN RETRIEVER YOU WILL FIND THE DOG ON THE FRONT COVER OF THE BOOK IS BONNIS ISLAND GOLDRUSH CARLA, WHICH HOLD SOOO MANY TITLES IT IS ALSMOST UNBELIEVABLE, WHICH ALL MY DOGS LINES DO..

SO HERE IS SOME RESEARCH FOR YOU IF YOUR INTERESTED.....

ALSO KIRBY IS THE DECENDENT OF CHARLIE.......

REMEMBER YOU ASKED!!!!!

AND YES I DO OWN GOLDRUSH LINES AND YES I DO OWN """"DUEL PURPOSE"""" LINES !!!!

IVE BEEN INTO THIS FOR OVER 20 YRS AND I KNOW A HECK OF A LOT ABOUT BLOODLINES AND PEDIGREES, AND ETHICS, AND MORALS THAT GOES ALONG WITH BEING A RESPONSIBLE OWNER!!!!!

My confusion in this is that you state that you OWN these lines....Buying into a line doesnt constitute OWNING that line. If memory serves, Ann Johnson OWNS Gold Rush kennels AND was the original breeder of BONNIE ISLANDS GOLDRUSH CARLA...Im just confused how you can say that you own these lines, when clearly you dont. If i have been mistaken, and you were only stating that you have bought INTO these lines, thats different. If i have mistaken, please forgive. BUT, dont most people own a dog that has several if not ALL of those lines, if they buy in America???? (especially if you go back far enough...) :unsure:

http://www.4mdogbooks.com/The_New_Complete...Retrie_P329.cfm

Here's the book if anyone was wondering...out of print...I've gotten it from the library (grumble...out for repairs now....guess I'd better just get my own copy!).

GoldenPup

IM NOT GOING TO PLAY THIS PEDIGREE GAME, I KNOW WHAT I OWN AND HAVE OWNED FOR OVER 20 YRS. SO CHALLENGING THE LINES THAT I OWN IS UNREASONABLE..GREAT RESEARCH IS KNOWLEDGE.......

PEDIGREE 101.........

EHTICS AND MORALS 101

DOG OWNERSHIP, JUST BEING RESPONSIBLE IN EVERYTHING YOU DO WITH EACH AND EVERY DOG YOU OWN....

:ref:

Ladies.....

ITS ALL GOOD GUS.....

DONT WORRY, NO I MADE MY POINT AND SO ITS TIME TO MOVE ON TO MORE FUN AND ENJOYABLE POSTS!!!! :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

Okay Summer, here's my 2 cents worth . . . but I'm no expert. I've seen too many shows to count and I have a great relationship with Cassidy's breeder (who has been showing goldens for 20+ years and is currently showing Cassidy's brother). I don't know all the technical terms, but I do know what I "should" see.

First of all, Bailey is a very beautiful dog. Make sure she is on proper nutrition, though. I would like too see more feathering in a 20 month old show dog. Remember that show judges love the thick, fluffy goldens. Bailey needs to thicken up that feathering on the legs and esp. on that tail (you've seen pictures of Cassidy's feathering and she's about the same age as Bailey!) But she does have a great face. The judges also love the expressive faces that show the personality of the dog just a bit.

It seems to me that in all the pictures, she is not showing very naturally. It looks "forced". The handler should not have to be pulling on the dog's neck. She may not actually be pulling, but it LOOKS that way and it shouldn't. When standing still, it should look like the dog is just standing there with no help from the handler. Know what I mean?

Put the pictures of Bailey side-by-side with some other show dog pictures and critique for yourself. There are a bunch of little changes to be made. For example, she needs to pull her neck back and hold her head further back and more level to the ground. She also needs to be firmer in the chest (it should look like a C curve coming out). Also, it never looks good to a judge if the dog is tucking in the tail. Its okay to hang straight down, but not tucking underneigh. Most of this can't be taught, it just comes from experience and from the dog themselves.

A good point was previously made: the dog needs to WANT to be shown. There are certain aspects to showing that just can not been taught. You can only train on showing to a certain point and then the dog must do the rest. She is still young and if she hasn't been shown in the puppy ring then you won't know for sure if the drive is there until she gets some experience in the ring.

I say keep working with her and get her some more experince in that ring. You guys should know after a few strolls around the ring if it was meant to be or not.

Good luck!

I'd love to see some pictures of her in the ring if you get any.

Ok now I have to say something. You cannot make claims that those are your lines when you are NOT the breeder. YES one, or a few of your dogs might have either been bred with, or are decendents from those dogs, however you CANNOT make the claim that that is YOUR line. Come on now. I'm sure that if Tonya Struble knew that you were claiming that her Rush Hills line, with Kirby...her dog.... is your lines, she'd give you her piece of mind. Same with the owner of the Gold Rush lines, and the Bonnie Island lines.

Everyone has their own opinion on matters, and they will all obviously differ, but to tell someone
"IT'S OBVIOUS YOU DONT UNDERSTAND, HECK, IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT!!!!!"
is just rude, and wrong. We are not here to insult each other, or to try to make someone feel or look stupid.

Further more you cannot make the claim that Kody is a "show dog" since he would not place. Yes you have not shown him, because that's not your interest, and you love agility, but a 98 lb dog is not going to make it. Whether all muscle or not, the weight standard is up to 75 lbs here in the US. You've also said that he tears his britches out, so you keep them short, well for conformation he needs those, that is a thing the judges look at. Don't get me wrong, I think Kody is nice looking, but doesn't fit within the standards.

I think your very highly talented in agililty, and that is obviously where your heart lies

Diane, you are RIGHT on Girl! Thats my whole point, is that I do NOT see your name, Goodtimn, on ANY of these lines, therefore, what else can i think??? I honestly HAVE to test the integrity of your statements when you have NOTHING to back them up. Yeah, youre right, i know absolutely nothing about any of this, i just woke up yesterday and wanted to start something....go ahead and let that be what you believe. My point to begin with is that you post pics of "MASTER KODY" and "RACEROCKET KELI" and say they are stacking when the truth is they are JUST STANDING THERE....The way they look in thier pics, is TOTALLY different than every "SHOW DOG" picture i have ever seen in my life. I agree that if these people KNEW you were claiming to own these lines, there would be a BIG problem! They have devoted thier lives and more money than i know to create the name they have created so.......Thats why i am doubtful that you OWN those lines.... :unsure:



"BUT THOSE WHO ARE NOT EDUCATED IN BLOODLINES AND ETHICS AND MORALS OF BREEDING DO SEEM TO GET A BIT CONFUSED......" WOW you got me RIGHT ON, how are you so intellegent to my ways.... :rolleyes:



Cassidy's Mom- those are some wonderful pointers, i really appreciate the help, i will pass those helpful hints on to her, she appreciates it also! I will post some pics of Bailey and let yall know how things go, but she is a really lovely looking dog, and those pics dont nearly do her justice! Thanks again! :clap

OK I dont think that she is saying she owns the lines and I think that the problem is that some of the new show folks are and the older show folks or performance folks whatever are speaking two different languages.

I dont think that she is saying she "owns the lines" but in the vernacular of dog showing..... owning the lines means that you have dogs from those lines and such.... really nobody owns lines..... even my lines of dogs that I have bred were not mine originally..... but they are my lines now because I am breeding them and working with them......

Everyones "lines" originally belonged to someone else.... Goldrush is the kennel name and if GOODTIMN has dogs of Goldrush kennel that she is breeding.... she can call them "her lines" and the fact is that Goldrush will also call them her lines..... yet they really came from whoever bred Goldrush's first dogs..... and back on and on....owning "lines" only means that you own dogs that were bred from those lines. So if GOODTIMN owns Goldrush Suzy, that means she does indeed own those lines even if she were not the original breeder of those lines, if she breeds those dogs now and puts her own kennel name on them, they are now her lines, does that make sense?

When I look at a dog that I might want to breed, I might say.... gee I want to use that boy because he has things that I want to add to my lines....... but Meghan who is the bitch I am breeding was bred by someone else..... so I am adding onto the work done by someone else and making decisions. Soooo I think the confusion is the language that is used. I don't believe that she is being dishonest in any way.... I totally understood what she meant.... I think we have a communication gap.....

Now as far as Baily is concerned..... he is in a very bad stack ...... and pictures tell you nothing...... I too would find a handling class.... I would bring him back to his breeder to evaluate if that is possible I would not want to make any comments about his structure or potential wihtout seeing him move and getting my hands on him.... especially with a coated breed like goldens a great many sins can be hidden by coat..... for the better or worse......

What I do see is a bad stack and that is making his rear and topline look bunchy.....

what I can see is a relatively nice rear..... he looks straighter in the front and a bit more angulated in the rear but that could be the bad stack..... if he is more angulated in the rear then that could cause some movement problems which I obviously can't see in a picture....... he seems to have a nice face and pleasing expression..... he looks light in bone but I dont know how old he is...... or what his pedigree is.....



If I might say...... I think its easy to get defensive in these forums and I think that the earlier conversation was a communication gap..... but I think that the newbies have to remember that they might not understand ..... and the veterans have to remember to clearly explain what they mean...... dog showing and breeding and pedigrees and lines is a different language to most people so using these times as teachable moments is preferable to arguments.

jmho

Now below are some stacks.....

Bad stack.... show picture.... the handler was in a hurry.... note the back feet are not even.....


Excellent stack.... notice he is stretched out... standing straight over front feet and rear hocks are totally verticle...... topline is straight and necks is stretched with face forward...... a great stack is a hard thing to get....



Here is my damned Cuinn..... who stands like a hobby horse.... he is a beautiful dog who doesn't stretch out.... notice the lumpy topline and the bad rear stack.... front feet looks like he is bracing himself.




Here are two excellent stacks of my Meghan...... I hope this gives you an idea...... in the first she may be reaching a bit so if you look at the above stack of cuinn and notice that he is leaning back.... look at his hocks are tilted back, in this first stack she may be leaning to far forward and notice again the hocks are tilted forward instead of straight up and down......





S

Shalva,
Thanks for clearing up the misunderstanding and sharing your experience with us. Its great to have somebody with your experience on the board!

:coolpartysmiley

We all need to remember that you can't always tell tone in an email or message board post.

:dogbark:

I could clearly see that when Goodtimn said she owned the lines several of the posters thought that it meant that she owned/bred a very famous dog..... they didn't understand that lines are just the dogs you are owning and breeding..... it was so clearly a communication gap.... the problem was that it wasn't explained well and its a hard thing to explain, I am not sure that I did that good a job myself..... and if its still not clear then I will do my best to try to explain it again differently....

the dog show world sometimes has a jargon/lingo of its own.
glad to be of help where I can be.
s

No i totally understand what youre saying, thats why i mentioned earlier (if youll look at it) for her to tell me if thats what was meant....She clearly came back that it was NOT what she meant...hence my confusion. Those are lovely pictures of your flat coats...they are gorgeous! Thanks for your explanation!

I just wanted to show you one more thing.....

a structurally sound dog will stack itself.....

here are some photos.....

7 week old puppies self stacking....




Here are my dogs self stacking.....

if a dog (Meghan) stacks in the woods and there is no judge there to see it, is it really a stack?





Here is Shalva at 5 months..... at the beach.....





Notice that in all of these pictures, in natural settings the dogs are standing with their rear legs set back and they are in a "stack" now some are not perfect but they are standing in a natural stack.... interestingly as I look back... I don't have many photos of cuinn in a natural stack.... and he is the dog that I like least structurally.
It is telling....

A stand for examination like what was shown in Goodtimns pictures is very different from a stack.....
s

OMG!! the 7wk old pup is possibly the CUTEST lil'pup I have ever seen!!!! Soooo beautiful! and I just love seeing pics of your flats...they are stunning!!

Maybe Tilly missed her calling in life as when she is out and about she often stops and stands so tall and proud...whether it would be considered 'stacking' I have no idea...I tend to call it 'posing' :rolleyes: Can a dog just naturally 'stack' itself without ANY training in this area, or is it always something that is taught from the begining??

Goodness, Shalva, they are ALL so impressive! Gorgeous dogs! I love the 5 month old, she is so pretty already! Do Flat Coats grow at the same rate as Goldens, or quite different?

Are you saying that the pics of Goodtimns arent stacks, but rather stands? So it isnt stacking at all???

Our new puppy, Legend stands JUST like that 7 week old puppy that you posted, all the time? What does that mean?? He looks very similar except a bigger head. Is that a female? HE/SHE is awesome! Thanks for the info and clarification, i appreciate your help!

Tilly is awesome, thats all that matters!!!! :hugsmiley I have missed her very much lately!

well of course they can.... that is what I am trying to show you in the pictures above.... not the show pictures.... but the natural stacking in the puppies and then in my dogs in the woods...... of course they can get better at it as you teach them... but one of the things you look at when puppies are being watched when you have a litter.... is you want to see which puppies trot when they go from place to place.... and which puppies stack naturally.... now there is more to it than this of course.... but for example in Shalvas litter red girl, orange girl and red boy.... all trotted and moved in a straight line when running... they also naturally stacked and they turned out to be my three show pups ..... red girl was shalva the pick puppy, devon was orange girl and zachary red boy.....

so yes they can and should naturally stack/pose if they are structurally sound.
s

ah yes...I have just re-read your post with the pictures and that is exactly the point you were making! :doh: its late here...

thanks Summer! Tilly says "Hi!"....well it was more of a grumbly grrr noise...as I said, its late...

well lines can be different....

I personally would not call those photos stacked pictured..... or even natural stacks, I agree that the back legs in both of those photos should be kicked out a bit more and that the dogs have their legs a bit to far under them in the rear..... I would like to see them carry their legs back a bit more.... but remember its hard to catch dogs in natural stacks with a camera and if many pictures were lost due to unforseen circumstances, those pictures may not be the best example. I would say those are not stacks... natural or not..... but that is just my opinion and I am not used to looking at "field lines".

Flat coats grow very differently than goldens.... it is why I try and post pictures of the goldens and the flats when I answer a question....
the flats get long and leggy and generally are much more slow to mature than most goldens.... if you notice shalva at 5 months you will see that she looks like a daddy long legs... with no substance or bone or anything for that matter.... most of us put our dogs away (out of embarassment) until they are 16 months or so..... Meghan and her pups have been the exception to that rule although shalva is clearly very leggy....

however a stack is a stack is a stack and any dog that is sound will naturally stack... if your boy is naturally stacking then it means that he is likely structurally sound..... watch to see if he trots most places.... and then get behind him when he is running away from you and see if he runs in a straight line..... with his front legs directly in front of his rear...... its very clear to see if you know what you are looking for.
s

He definetely runs very straight and with his head either held very high and proud or sniffing! LOL...His legs ARE very straight and no easty westy going on, so i think that looks good. He does the natural stack, though, literally EVERY time he stops....I think its adorable! He looks very manly! HEHE! Shalva, thanks so much for the info, ive learned alot today! :clap

Do you have anymore 7 week old pics of Show goldens?? Curious to see.
What steps can we do to work on stacking him on command? Thanks again!

I know you are going to laugh when I ask you this but is it possible for a Golden/mix to stacke naturally?

I have seen Nitro do this and wondered where he got that stand. This is very interesting. I think he could be tought to do this but I wouldn't care if he didn't. He is my sweetie pie no matter what. This isn't a good picture but I have seen him do it.

of course its possible, it has to do with structural soundness and being built right.... it doesn't matter what hte breed or mix.... all it tells you is that a dog is built right so his legs and that he is comfortable standing how he was intended to stand.
Nitro is a cutey..... looks like a toller in that picture.
cute pup
s

Thanks. He is a fantastic dog. Lots of Golden mannerisms. The Golden in him is more dominant than what his other part is.

What is a toller? As you can see I don't show.

nova scotia duck tolling retriever..... you should do a search.... just in that lst pic he looked like a toller.... same color and head shape in the second pic he looked more like a golden.

doesnt matter he is adorable.
s